an illogical method of a oneness speech !
in a debate between mr perkins and mr reeves where he the response to a simple question was not given an reasonalbe or biblical answer .. but instead turn to misuse and misrepent both the bible and the opponants position to come a way with a false veiw
the question was in connection to john 16 :13 which states :When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come
and the question is : who is the one who gives the holy spirit information when it says he won't speak on his own authority / or of himself ?Answer given
point 1 --- our position is that the one God of the old testament became a man, and the distinctions between the humanity and the deity -- let me get to john 16 the word authority is not there in the origanal manuscripts
point 2 --- the holy spirit will not speak on his own , well mr reeves you told us the holy spirit was omniscient -- if the holy spirit is omniscient why is he getting his orders from someone else
point 3 --- a divine individual cant speak of himslelf he has to get his orders from someone else -- again the spirit of truth .. its the 3rd time in the same conversation he mentions the the spirit of truth
which he already identifies as the some one who will dwell in them, then qaulifies it... i am coming to you
in a debate between mr perkins and mr reeves where he the response to a simple question was not given an reasonalbe or biblical answer .. but instead turn to misuse and misrepent both the bible and the opponants position to come a way with a false veiw
the question was in connection to john 16 :13 which states :When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come
and the question is : who is the one who gives the holy spirit information when it says he won't speak on his own authority / or of himself ?Answer given
point 1 --- our position is that the one God of the old testament became a man, and the distinctions between the humanity and the deity -- let me get to john 16 the word authority is not there in the origanal manuscripts
point 2 --- the holy spirit will not speak on his own , well mr reeves you told us the holy spirit was omniscient -- if the holy spirit is omniscient why is he getting his orders from someone else
point 3 --- a divine individual cant speak of himslelf he has to get his orders from someone else -- again the spirit of truth .. its the 3rd time in the same conversation he mentions the the spirit of truth
which he already identifies as the some one who will dwell in them, then qaulifies it... i am coming to you
MY RESPONSE
this is very telling that oneness advocate can not logical or scripturely make a case ... without making irrelivent points to the question or the case of the opposition --- and seves the perfect example
the only way for text l...ike john 16 :13 and and other texts that show all 3 persons active in salvation to make sence is if you let the scripture define their own terms and its own message .. dont impute something outside the text onto it as if the text is a secondary point
so lets deal with these points
point 1 --- our position is that the one God of the old testament became a man, and the distinctions be the humanity and the deity -- let me get to john 16 the word authority is not there in the origanal manuscripts
in oneness theology and especially perkin line of thought .. jesus is not the divine son but the created nature .. and the the father or the spirit that empowers him is God
but then he gives this fascination answer ... "the one God of the old testament became a man" it is fascinating because the old testament show God to be multipersonal as to the nature ... so which one became a human ?
as james white stated .... the issue of authority was never the point .. but who is the one the spirit speak on behalf .. if the spirit is one called father .. when for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak -- which in any case perkins could not deal with and that is why he brought up the irrelivent issue of authority
the tinitarian position is the only biblical and viable way to understand the revealed words of the bible ... to say there is only one person in God is to commit a leap of unquestionable faith and call jesus a mental patient .. with multiple personality disorder .. are you ready to make this a positive case ?
this is very telling that oneness advocate can not logical or scripturely make a case ... without making irrelivent points to the question or the case of the opposition --- and seves the perfect example
the only way for text l...ike john 16 :13 and and other texts that show all 3 persons active in salvation to make sence is if you let the scripture define their own terms and its own message .. dont impute something outside the text onto it as if the text is a secondary point
so lets deal with these points
point 1 --- our position is that the one God of the old testament became a man, and the distinctions be the humanity and the deity -- let me get to john 16 the word authority is not there in the origanal manuscripts
in oneness theology and especially perkin line of thought .. jesus is not the divine son but the created nature .. and the the father or the spirit that empowers him is God
but then he gives this fascination answer ... "the one God of the old testament became a man" it is fascinating because the old testament show God to be multipersonal as to the nature ... so which one became a human ?
as james white stated .... the issue of authority was never the point .. but who is the one the spirit speak on behalf .. if the spirit is one called father .. when for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak -- which in any case perkins could not deal with and that is why he brought up the irrelivent issue of authority
the tinitarian position is the only biblical and viable way to understand the revealed words of the bible ... to say there is only one person in God is to commit a leap of unquestionable faith and call jesus a mental patient .. with multiple personality disorder .. are you ready to make this a positive case ?
point 2 the holy spirit will not speak on his own , well mr reeves you told us the holy spirit was omniscient -- if the holy spirit is omniscient why is he getting his orders from someone else
okay lets break this down
1 -- the holy spirit will not speak on his own -- correct .. as that is what the biblical evidence tells us
2 -- you told us the holy spirit was omniscient correct -- as that is what the biblical evidence tells us
but here is the problem the final part is a non sequitur -- it does not follow
how does being omniscient have anything to do with speaking for another ... the term omniscience -- mean you know all things ... and the fact that the holy spirit testifies to what jesus said and done mean he is doing for our benefit
point 3 -- a divine individual can't speak of himslelf he has to get his orders from someone else -- again the spirit of truth .. its the 3rd time in the same conversation he mentions the the spirit of truth
which he already identifies as the some one who will dwell in them, then qaulifies it... i am coming to you
here we see that perkins final point which i have listed has failed to directly address the question .. and it is an important question to determine if ones veiw of the scripture is correct or not .. if it biblically sound in its premises or if something is controlling your interpretation of what is being said .. in that you assume something which is not proven by the scriptures
now lets see this point
our position at least deals with every aspect of the bible and does not lead us to reject the scripture cause it does not say what you feel it should -- for example .. a divine individual cant speak of himslelf he has to get his orders from someone else
this is what john 14, 15 and 16 all speak too ... and we accept it as it affirms our position, as does many other places like john 1, john 5, john 8, john 10 and john 17 -- as for the oneness position it re interprets these passages to a radically flawed veiw
the title spirit of truth is explicitly state the nature of this entity .. that he can not lie
he already identifies as the some one who will dwell in them, then qaulifies it... i am coming to you --- interesting that he cant not deal with the question at hand but still managers to throw in john 14 :16 -17 .. although it is about the same promise .. it poses no threat to us ... since this passage speak to all three person who in dwell each other in salvation of man .... inheritance .. he was not say he is the spirit but that he will be with them through indwelling of the spirt by this act of inheritance
okay lets break this down
1 -- the holy spirit will not speak on his own -- correct .. as that is what the biblical evidence tells us
2 -- you told us the holy spirit was omniscient correct -- as that is what the biblical evidence tells us
but here is the problem the final part is a non sequitur -- it does not follow
how does being omniscient have anything to do with speaking for another ... the term omniscience -- mean you know all things ... and the fact that the holy spirit testifies to what jesus said and done mean he is doing for our benefit
point 3 -- a divine individual can't speak of himslelf he has to get his orders from someone else -- again the spirit of truth .. its the 3rd time in the same conversation he mentions the the spirit of truth
which he already identifies as the some one who will dwell in them, then qaulifies it... i am coming to you
here we see that perkins final point which i have listed has failed to directly address the question .. and it is an important question to determine if ones veiw of the scripture is correct or not .. if it biblically sound in its premises or if something is controlling your interpretation of what is being said .. in that you assume something which is not proven by the scriptures
now lets see this point
our position at least deals with every aspect of the bible and does not lead us to reject the scripture cause it does not say what you feel it should -- for example .. a divine individual cant speak of himslelf he has to get his orders from someone else
this is what john 14, 15 and 16 all speak too ... and we accept it as it affirms our position, as does many other places like john 1, john 5, john 8, john 10 and john 17 -- as for the oneness position it re interprets these passages to a radically flawed veiw
the title spirit of truth is explicitly state the nature of this entity .. that he can not lie
he already identifies as the some one who will dwell in them, then qaulifies it... i am coming to you --- interesting that he cant not deal with the question at hand but still managers to throw in john 14 :16 -17 .. although it is about the same promise .. it poses no threat to us ... since this passage speak to all three person who in dwell each other in salvation of man .... inheritance .. he was not say he is the spirit but that he will be with them through indwelling of the spirt by this act of inheritance
