firstly what we have here is a classic example of taken a scripture which is not addressing any particular belief .. infact this verse has little to do any raised objection ... if it is read in context we see that it is addressing the very last days .. when Christ return, so there is no immediate point of veiw .. just consider the following words in the passage
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction
and also consider the following words
and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness
these verse all suggest a problem with the veiw taken if we are to assume that this ultimately makes the doctrine of irresistible grace a false one, you already assume some the doctrine does teach .. that it is a -- by force, and b --- doesnt teach man can resist
infact once understood .. there are aspects ... those who have chosen in christ are all the ones who accept the gospel for all it teaches and does neglect even one teaching, and then there is the side that suggest that there are thos who have not been chosen and remain in sin .. which is also biblical .. think of john 10 .. where jesus says to the jew you do not believe because you are not my flock
when we allow text to stand and not interpret it through tradition .. we see that this is direct to the fact thay jesus a people, who do not include all human being but a chosen -- we can't interpret to say you can become my sheep if you just exercise you supposed free will -- since we can not come to God by own mean we are drawn and chosen in christ
Romans 1:18 says men can hold or supress the truth in unrighteousness. I would think the heart would need to be able to hear and understand truth in order to supress it, which flies in the face of us being totally inable to come to a knowledge of the truth if so happened to be of the 'non elect'. 2 Timothy also tells us that it is men who do not endure sound doctrine, but heap to THEMSELVES teachers, having itching ear
if this verse has been selected to disprove irresistible grace, congratulation, not only have been unsuccessful in this .. you have proved total depravity in ur attempts
first thing to point out is that this is selective in the use of scripture like the last one , so let go to the chapter and draw conclusuions from the whole section .. and to let you know the discourse is from romans 1 :18 -3 :20
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not Honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen -- Romans 1 : 18 -25
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.-- Romans 2 :1 -11
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive. “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.”“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive. “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.”“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God - Romans 3 :9 -20
these passages make this argument fully explicit in this manner that all (men) have sinned and fallen short of Gods glory .. therefore man can not merit or save them selves since he is sinful to his nature and spiritually dead
so this is a great start to actually argue for the side you are opposed too .. since the very context is speaking of the radical corruption of man due to their sinful natures
but lets address one small issue in this assumption that remains unanswered .. and that is ...
Romans 1:18 says men can hold or suppress the truth in unrighteousness -- in context what does this refer too ...
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
here is a small portion of text .. the objector assumes that this is about believers that once saved can be in denial and suppress knowledge of God .. this is not the correct way of deal with the text
1 its about unbelief, not belief
we gather this from the actually passage ... " For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darken
they had knowledge that there was a creator just by looking to creation itself, but due to their ungodly desire they led themselves to believe he was not real .. and due to this there hearts were harden ... so they didnt believe in God due to their hardened hearts
2 Timothy 4:3-4 say men can actually turn their ears away from truth, and prefer rather fables. Boy oh boy do we know we are living in that day and age...
again we see the lack of context and what is being discussed .. so lets fix this before fixing this misrepresentation
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound[a] teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry
here is the context and we quickly see that .. it is dealing with the bible being the centre of a christian life ... and not that man can instinctively walk away from faith
the reason for man being led astray in the church setting is very simple .. not being acquinted with the whole bible from day one to the last .. we see this in roman catholicism where they down play the importance of biblical teaching -- and to an extent in this attack ..
we first start with an assumed position of "free will" and then go and read it into the bible ... this is eisegesis -- the incorrect way to handle the bible
