in this discussion we will be looking at Romans 9 verse 1 -24
SECTION A
I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race,
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to son ship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to son ship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen
here in these words we find Paul expressing his great sorrow and anguish that his own people the Israelites could be saved .... in fact it is so much he wishes that if there was a way for this to be that he would sacrifice his own place in Christ
in this we must ask 2 points .....
a) is Paul's feelings the place in which God determine the manner of salvation, who will or will not be drawn .... if anything all this shows us is that God used humans in their most human manner .. with emotions, all that side of things
but does our emotion and love for people mean that we are the point of Gods determination ... is salvation human orientated or God orientated .. does find it basis in man feelings or emotion. or is only found in Gods sovereign grace and will
b) we need to come to understand the full impact of these words "that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people" what does this mean ... it can only mean one thing Paul is saying that for the sake of the other Jews .. showing concern for their spiritual lives ... or more directly their lack of spiritual life ... and for sake of fairness he would account to himself being condemned
we also need to consider the following point ... while it is only human to to feel emotion for those around us who we desire to be in Gods care .. but our concern for others it should never be noted that our emotions should never become the stand point of determine scripture and its truth, in fact our feeling should be subjected to Gods word
and we should not be think .. why me God .. and not them, instead it should be why anyone at all .. we do not deserve such grace or blessing, we only deserve your wrath ... that is the just position we can ever say is what we deserve
people goes onto list of the blessing that the people of Israel have had bestowed upon them ... and these thing are in a way undeserved thing, Israel did not deserve such privileges ..
we should take note of the words Paul uses to describe the lord in both natures .. human nature and divine nature .. "and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all" ... it is laid out as plain as day
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SECTION B
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel --- Romans 9
here is another important scripture on Gods sovereign choice in election, and these verses are very deep
"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel"
in this verse we have 2 points
a) is Gods word and its fulfilment, and b) is the fact that not all Israelites are from Israel
a) to understand this a little more we need to consider how often it would have been asserted that "if salvation in Christ had been so great and wonderful how comes not every Jew has been saved, surely this show that it has failed" to this we need to immediately not that verse 1 -5 the family of promises that have been given to Israel, and in particular we see in verse 5 ... that the patriarchs "fathers" were given as the beginning of Israel .. a legacy for all Israel too have the privilege of being in the line then we have this line "and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ" we are to understand that this is the final chapter on Israels part in God salvation ... as salvation comes through the Jews
so now we need to find a good ways of these words in verse 6a to be understood .... a good way could be to separate the promised messiah from the idea that salvation truly for all Jews, as the old testament states a remnant will be saved .... so the fulfilment in Gods word is not dependant on how many are saved rather it is only dependant on who they are saved too, and from
in a manner of speaking God promise are not dependant on Israel for them to effective, they are dependant on God character and will that all shall come to be regarded as true promises
so Gods salvation being in his son is not dependant on how many or how few are saved, but upon God being the one who powerfully saved unto his own will
b) here is the slightly more interesting statement "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel" this could be referring to spiritual Israel .. that not not all Israelite by the flesh are of the spiritual Israel
this is how many view this verse and it has some support
since in revelation it has a number of 144,000 .. 12, 000 from all the tribes
And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.
so if this is the correct manner of understanding this one verse from Romans 9 ... then we have to conclude that Gods promises to Arel have come a fulfilment in this time .. the promises that regard the nation of Israel are all seen as a reality... but the spiritual promises are still being fulfilled in these time ... the elected Jews and gentiles are being drawn into the flock
so now we need to find a good ways of these words in verse 6a to be understood .... a good way could be to separate the promised messiah from the idea that salvation truly for all Jews, as the old testament states a remnant will be saved .... so the fulfilment in Gods word is not dependant on how many are saved rather it is only dependant on who they are saved too, and from
in a manner of speaking God promise are not dependant on Israel for them to effective, they are dependant on God character and will that all shall come to be regarded as true promises
so Gods salvation being in his son is not dependant on how many or how few are saved, but upon God being the one who powerfully saved unto his own will
b) here is the slightly more interesting statement "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel" this could be referring to spiritual Israel .. that not not all Israelite by the flesh are of the spiritual Israel
this is how many view this verse and it has some support
since in revelation it has a number of 144,000 .. 12, 000 from all the tribes
And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.
so if this is the correct manner of understanding this one verse from Romans 9 ... then we have to conclude that Gods promises to Arel have come a fulfilment in this time .. the promises that regard the nation of Israel are all seen as a reality... but the spiritual promises are still being fulfilled in these time ... the elected Jews and gentiles are being drawn into the flock
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SECTION C
7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
the first thing is that we need to recall the passage especially verses 4 -5 which reads as "They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs" ... here Paul recounts the many blessing that have been bestowed on Israel ... which are true blessing with a divine purpose in them .. but also id the foundation that sets Israel apart from every other nation .. as they had God on their side, which the Jews did not really understand special privileges of this fact, as the history clearly demonstrates time and time again
while i refer you to john pipers book "the justification of God" chapter 2. for a more thoroughly laid out case on all the points in this section as it is a much rewarding examination of the particular terms and their meanings
for now i i just want to bring in the final point in the blessings this "the patriarchs" for this examination that i will be doing
and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring
here is the most interesting point to work through Paul is stating a fact that not all are children of Abraham based on decendency ... this is speaking of the spiritual offspring .. as it would make no sense to say that not all Jews are descendants of Abraham, for by the flesh they are ... but by attitude they are seen as being nothing like Abraham as Jesus says in john 8 that "They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did,but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did" ... so there is a good point to be made .... that Paul is not arguing physical heritage but rather spiritual adoption into Abraham's decendancy
we see this argument in the following words "This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring" .... which could possibly form the basis for Paul point in chapter 11 .. but that is not our focus
For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac
now we come to the promise in regards to the promised child Isaac from genesis 15 ... but this promise is not just for him, he plays an integral part but it is more complex .. the nation of Israel and consequently the church Jesus Christ founded in Matthew 16 and john 15 has its routs in the same promise .. as the promise is Christ himself by the loins of Abraham the promised child would come, who would birth the nation of Israel, which eventually the messiah would come forth ... who would be God promised saviour .. the one who would bare in his stead our sins
think of these words that follow
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
now comes the most important section that deal with predestination in these first words "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger" ..... this choose was not based on anything these two men had done, or was going to do ... but based on God sovereign choice .. that he chose the one over the other to become the father of the nation of Israel or in another manner progenitor of the 12 tribes of Israel
As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” ..... many gloss over the meaning of these word but that is not necessary as the speak for them selves in the context Paul has place them in ... firstly it is speaking Gods electing purposes .. so God choose to demonstrate love one .. and hate for the other
if God allows human to have hate for some people in some situations .. does he not therefore also deserve the same for people who do what is against is holy will, and law
this is not speaking loving or liking some one less based on the persons action since these men had not been born yet to do anything so it would only be fair to allow the context speak in our term, God has love and hate in him .. this is main point of the verse he loves those he choose, and hate the one he does not choose
am i making God into a monster by seeing it this , no not at all i am simply allowing God thee freedom to convey his words
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SECTION D
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
here is the next section of Romans 9 to which i shall dive into too ....
"What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means"
to what may be an anticipated objection based on the choices God determined in eternity past .. the charge has been level that God is unjust... "Is there injustice on God's part" many may think that if God is truly like this .. that he choose whom he saves based not on anything the man does, but solely upon his own sovereignty ... that God is unfair and shows a great injustice that he would not consider all mankind as for the benefit of salvation
but injustice there is none in God .. since he will only ever exercise two way .. either mercy on whom he desires or justice on he desires
there is no place for injustice when no one deserve mercy in the first place , but deserves his just wrath
as seen in these words
as seen in these words
"For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion" So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy"
here Paul brings into his argument for his position the old testament citation "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion" as to make his point clear ... the choice does not find its avenue in man, but in the Lord .. he chooses whom he will, and passes over who he wills (leaves in sin)
the very fact that he then states that it is not in the human ability "human will or exertion" reveals that God is in total control and is free in his choice making
there is no condition put upon man to be seen as worthy of such a great thing, it is all Gods doing
"For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth, So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills"
here we enter into a common theme where God uses the enemies of the people he loves to bring about a greater purpose .. here the Pharaoh is being used as a stumbling block to test moses ... what is commonly seen is that the argument that ensues from this is that the non reformed will say the man hardened his own heart, and the reformed will say God hardened it .. what is the main way of understanding this
we can utilise the bible in another area to draw a conclusion ... the act of justification Paul and James speak of it in two manner Paul .. is dealing with it from God perspective, James is deal with out ward aspect of how it is seen before men
and like wise in the case of Pharaoh God hardens his heart before moses comes to him (an indifference of attitude and will) so that God is working through Pharaoh to bring about his desire ... the man becomes a stumbling block, but before men who do not see the work of God in this .. it would seem as though the pharaoh is act on his own impulse
but the end result is for the glory of the Triune God in that his name will be known in the world
God has the freedom to do what he desire with the creation of his own hands ...he did nt have show mercy on a single person, but due to his greatness he done that very thing and has revealed himself in the person and work of Christ , and through the saving of the elect .. remember no one deserves this but the fact that even one person has been shown great mercy is a ringing tribute of Gods mercy
and the fact that many will receive this mercy as God wills it to be is a supreme demonstration of his glory ... but this does not point to universalism or the mere possibility of it happening
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lets begin this secton with the defining point which sets the following verses into flow
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” here is the most interesting section for it starts with a humanistic objection “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" on this we see there are ways for this be seen
in its original manner this would have been a Jews objection against one aspect of God sovereign grace ... this could be seen in the following way
the Jews would say "if this salvation in Christ is the real thing, is what its cracked up to be then why are not all Jews coming to him then"
and a more up to date object but not to dissimilar would be the freewill position ... "if not all men are coming to Christ then does this not prove free will and human bound choice in the matter"
and Paul's answer silences any and all such objections of the sort just consider the words that follow "
But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?
the sheer power of the words .. it is enough to make the point that God has final say in all matters .. if this is not enough for mankind
consider the following words
"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?"
such a statement makes the point clear God does as he please with his creation, he has obligation to none .. its his choice in the matter of how he goes about saving those whom he loves, and passing others over whom will come to judgement
in these words we see a beautiful truth being expressed .... of predestination
predestination of two kinds of people who are "not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" who also happen to be those "whom he has called"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
conclusion
the clear biblical exegesis of the text as presented above reveals to us much about God ways, more over to own ways which many proceed to read into the text which angles the meaning .. such as cooperate election unto historical tasks ... and not individual election unto salvation
the idea is not only unfounded but complete erroneous in light of verses 7 -9 and verse 24 which reveal that it is the second aspect, for the first would make no sense when it speaks of both the Jew and gentiles... as the second had no historical application to what is being mention in this assumption
also we must consider this in light of verses 26 -27 where we read that non Jews become sons of God and a remnant of the Jews will be saved
so the real emphasis in this is that God choice on his own will be saved and who will not ... but those who are saved are granted grace and salvation and those who are not are objects of Gods just wrath which they are fully responsible for
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SECTION E
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
lets begin this secton with the defining point which sets the following verses into flow
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” here is the most interesting section for it starts with a humanistic objection “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" on this we see there are ways for this be seen
in its original manner this would have been a Jews objection against one aspect of God sovereign grace ... this could be seen in the following way
the Jews would say "if this salvation in Christ is the real thing, is what its cracked up to be then why are not all Jews coming to him then"
and a more up to date object but not to dissimilar would be the freewill position ... "if not all men are coming to Christ then does this not prove free will and human bound choice in the matter"
and Paul's answer silences any and all such objections of the sort just consider the words that follow "
But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?
the sheer power of the words .. it is enough to make the point that God has final say in all matters .. if this is not enough for mankind
consider the following words
"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?"
such a statement makes the point clear God does as he please with his creation, he has obligation to none .. its his choice in the matter of how he goes about saving those whom he loves, and passing others over whom will come to judgement
in these words we see a beautiful truth being expressed .... of predestination
predestination of two kinds of people who are "not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" who also happen to be those "whom he has called"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
conclusion
the clear biblical exegesis of the text as presented above reveals to us much about God ways, more over to own ways which many proceed to read into the text which angles the meaning .. such as cooperate election unto historical tasks ... and not individual election unto salvation
the idea is not only unfounded but complete erroneous in light of verses 7 -9 and verse 24 which reveal that it is the second aspect, for the first would make no sense when it speaks of both the Jew and gentiles... as the second had no historical application to what is being mention in this assumption
also we must consider this in light of verses 26 -27 where we read that non Jews become sons of God and a remnant of the Jews will be saved
so the real emphasis in this is that God choice on his own will be saved and who will not ... but those who are saved are granted grace and salvation and those who are not are objects of Gods just wrath which they are fully responsible for
