A response to Matthew Vines part 2
This is the continuation to the questions that Matthew vines has put out on Homosexuality, gay marriage, the bible and Church history. Let us now turn to the remaining questions one by one:
Do you believe that the moral distinction between lust and love matters for LGBT people’s romantic relationships?
Now we come to the most deceptive question of them all. We have two responses that are in measure:
First, we must be very upfront on this issue of “LGBT PEOPLE” there is no such group — you do not define a society by there sexual life (or in this case sexual sin). It is the most absurd thing to even begin to do, you are sinning before God and are making it your one proud feat.
Second, when asking of a moral “distinction between lust and lust” who is the one who get to define just what such a thing encompasses You or God in his Word. If you then all bets are off because this group is not a monolithic group— there is no central ideal for such a concept. If God then it does not even matter of your personal feelings; God word is very straight forward on these matters.
Do you believe that loving same-sex relationships should be assessed in the same same way as the same-sex behaviour Paul explicitly describes as lustful in Romans 1?
If you are truly a Christian (as you claim) then such a question is ultimately pointless as the great God and Saviour has only given us one set of instructions as to how we are to live as Christians. The bible gives us all we need to live holy lives before God the father in Christ Jesus —our Lord.
The question that needs to be asked here is: Do you as a supposed Christian have another source of authority that trumps the Word of God?
Do you believe that Paul’s use of terms “shameful” and “unnatural” in Roman 1:26-27 means means that all same-sex relationships are sinful?
Such a question reveal more about the one posing it than does it about the text in question. This is the work of a defiant individual. When Romans 1 points us back to the Creative order to establish the true relationship of God to man, and to his own spouse (Husband and Wife) as being the only union God has given in society at large. It is very evident that is how he intended it too be. And anything that comes along which is not fitting to the parameters given at creation is to be seen as a deviation of the original intention of God — that include the acts that homosexuals commit.
Would you say the same about Paul’s description of long hair in men as “shameful” and against “nature” in 1 Corinthians 11:14, or would you say he was describing cultural norms of his time?
This is not even a worthy question at all. All it reveals is that Matthew does not understand a creational ordinance and a cultural ordinance; the contexts are hugely different from one another— Romans 1 is addressing sinfulness of all mankind due to the fall. Whereas, 1 Corinthians 11 is addressing something that took place in the church context while we can draw something of importance from this passage, it is not of the same nature to use his stated term.
The word “nature” found in Romans one is best defined as that which according to the creative purposes of God. And the word “natural” is best understood to be a church related practice (possibly of that time period).
Do you believe that the capacity for procreation is essential to marriage? If so, what does that mean for infertile heterosexual couples?
Matthew, while Procreation is a definitional part of marriage as it shows the love of each of the persons (husband and wife) for each other— that they would desire to bring children into the world is a real blessing. And one that God has given the function to some but withhold from others as he pleases.
But nevertheless, God is the one gave us Marriage and defined it parameters to be between a man and a woman (a husband and a wife); it was God intent to make this union to unite a man and a woman — which brings harmony and completion to them both. And the truth of the matter is that is no harmony, completion; or even complementary in homosexual relationship as you call them.
How much time have you spent engaging with the writings of LGBT-affirming Christians like Justin Lee, James Brownson, and Rachel Murr?
Great question. Many of us who have taken the time to interact with you and others have done so, by responding to your books, articles and even videos on the subject. And it is a one way street— we do it as much as we can. Now let us ask the question in reverse: “How much time have you spent engaging with the writings of non-affirming true Christians like James R White?” The answer is very obvious and clear that you are monologue parrot.
Besides this question we need to truthful on this matter: no true Christian can ever be “LGBT-affirming” you and these other people who are rebelling in your sin are not Christians.
What relationship recognition rights short of marriage do you support for same-sex couples? What are you doing to advocate for those rights?
None. The bible is clear that we are to flee from our sin and embrace the all powerful Saviour Jesus Christ. He does not accept anyone who clings to their rebellious sinful pasts and that includes homosexuality.
Do you know who Tyler Clementi, Leelah Alcorn, and Blake Brockington are, and did your church offer any kind of prayer for them when their deaths made national news?
It certainly very sad when people take their lives, but I fail to see the connection that it was due to not being accepted for their homosexuality. There are multiple reasons for people taking their lives— not just one. But it is vital for us that the bible does not permit us to “pray for the dead.” No matter who they are, these people certainly were not christian as they held onto their sinful past as you are currently doing so.
Are you willing to pray for a pedophile who takes his life?
Do you know that LGBT youth whose families reject them are 8.4 times more likely to attempt suicide than LGBT youth whose families support them?
And you know this is an actual statistic and not a made up one.
Have you vocally objected when church leaders and other Christians have compared same-sex relationships to things like bestiality, incest, and pedophilia?
No, there is no reason to do such a thing! For in all such cases it is a destructive process of sin. Man was not created to do such things that are defilement to his own body and a defilement to God’s holy purposes. It is not that you have a problem with people doing such a comparison; it is in fact, that you have a problem with one true God who put all such sexual sins in one Category in the Law as found Leviticus 18 and 20.
How certain are you that God’s will for all gay Christians is lifelong celibacy?
I reject out of hand the identification of “gay Christians” as does the Bible. You are a sinful man, not a repentant Christian. God’s will is that you as a sinner repent of your sin of Homosexuality and then believe in Christ to save you from that sin.
What do you think the result would be if we told all straight teenagers in the church that if they ever dated someone they liked, held someone’s hand, kissed someone, or got married, they would be rebelling against God?
This question assume something that has yet to demonstrated to be the case; and that is of course, Homosexuality is in fact a God given relationship for humanity. And as the bible no where gives us the grounds or justification for this position— it therefore, is not a legitimate parallel.
There is of course, one parallel of sorts that we might make application thereof— that being the one where one of the persons (man or woman); turns out to be a married person. Then it becomes adultery— which is sinful.
Are you willing to be in fellowship with Christians who disagree with you on this topic?
No! It is not something that any true Christian can even begin to argue upon as the Word of God is final on the issue and if you disagree with the Word of God; then you are a false Christian.
