In the continuation of the examination of harry knox' arguments for his position
harry's 4th argument
I turn to pauls letter to the roman christians ... ancient rome was full of temples to fertility gods and godesses, in those temples preists copulated with boy who has no place to go .. in hopes of insuring good havest and growth in a population threatened by deseases and war. the lives of individual children were being sacrificied was precieved to be the common good .. and in the process it became apart of the preists life to partake in orgies that if they were not good for the children, they were pleasurable for the adults
To leave that part out of your study on romans 1 .. is intelectually lazy and spiritually life threatening for your lesbian and gay neighbours
but an explanation of pauls writings in the context offers you to speak words of hope and reconciliation to a nation that is obsessed with sex and talking about sex in every avenue except church
please don't forget to study romans 2 .. where paul begins not to judge our neighbours
What is amazing is that this man can say so much about something which is not even in paul mind when addressing the purpose of the needed saviour -- while it maybe true that rome was " full of temples to fertility gods and godesses, in those temples preists copulated with boy who has no place to go " .. it is one thing to know something pretaining to history of a certian time period, it is quite another thing to assume the bible is address such practices in any detail .. and not addressing sinful nature of man as a whole
What else is blatent in this attempt to make your life style more biblical is that there is no foundation for such claims. we lack any biblical presentation of the passage, there is no exegesis. just plain eisegesis (the art of reading foreign concepts into a passage that has no place for them)
for example "preists copulated with boys who has no place to go" .. and assuming this is being discussed at all
now for an exegesis of the text
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen
God righteous judgement is being revealed against all forms of ungodliness and all so against those who perpetrate them. this is the fist vital point, it is this wickedness and vile live which course men and women to suppress the truth of God. in other word it is men who do this in accord to their evil hearts ...
paul makes this point by clarifying the issue, "since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made" .. it is not the matter of there could be something, it is plainly seen that all thing have order due the fact they were placed in the order we find them .. and done so by a being who has the power to do so
and paul make a point "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" .. here paul further establishes his point, not only is God seen through the creation. a reflection of his power, but that he has personally revealed himself to select people to convey his message and paul then make it clear "that people are without excuse" .. no justification for their disbelief ...
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened .. this is an interesting point .... what does it mean to know God ... well in the same respect they had knowledge which they suppressed due to their sinful natures .. and they were then rejecting God by having their hearts harden
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles .. here is the first point of idolatry ...
these people downplayed the creator - creation relationship ... and turned it on its head .. through their self inflated egos .. they were clearly depicting their foolishness .. and serve that which had no power .. idols
This is the transitional point in the passages and always needs to be seen .. in context .. but never is by the "anti biblical, anti God .. but self centred person" or homosexual
and here i will speak to it Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another
this can not get any clearer .. due to the above idolatry .. and blurring of God revealed truth of who he is -- the creator, and what we are his creation .... God does this " gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity" .. sinful desires ... this fits all categories ... and "sexual impurity" ... this has a wide range of implications .. from bestiality, improper sexual exploits like homosexuality, rape, and many things the next point to reflect is "degrading of their bodies with one another" .. what on Gods green earth can this refer to .. well simple .. the above sexual impurities fits in , and more focus is what is to come in the next argument
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen
the wording is very easy to follow and needs no in depth explanation .. but one thing can be said is that .. if God is the creator and he is and we are his creation, he must have something like a moral and living code for his creature to abide .. not laws but a deeper point of reference .. and it can be found in genesis 2 man and wife
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error
"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practise such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practise them"
Note the wording "Because of this" .. because of what exactly .. well we only need to look to verse 25 .. that man "exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator" ... and from this we see the natural order of things became contaminated through this idolatry .... therefore the result was that the manner of Gods work in man and women union .. the blessed covenant become contaminated too
mans lusts .. became the downfall .. no longer was there unity through Gods covenant blessing .. marriage .. there was disunity and disfunction in that "Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another" .. these things are not Godly they are against him
the interesting thing in this section is "and received in themselves the due penalty for their error" .. a reminder of this sinful rebellious act they were put under a penalty, this penalty is hard to know .. maybe they're passions become their undoing, something happens to them due to this sinful way ?
and in like manner ... God reveals another interesting fact this is the very angle paul gets to .. all the above action man makes leads too these things being seen as that of their lives
pay special attention too ... "And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done" ... this can refer to what come before .. the exchange of creator - creation worship, and natural relations and unnatural relations -- but also we can look ahead in the context ... to the list of vices in men ... and note "haters of God" ... these things are due to being haters and not lovers of God
also interesting is that of the end result of others being equally yoked in these actions ... "Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practise such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practise them" ... this is something which infects many not a few
since romans 2 is not really dealt with by harry knox but is only thrown out as to make his flawed understanding on romans 1 seem to carry wait
lets see what is the situation is in more clear understandering ....
Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things
here we have the first words of chapter 2 .. and what we have .. is after paul reveals God ungodliness of the every other people group, except the jews .. he then turns it on them to reveal their sinful natures .. in these words "everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself" .. if one group are gulty of all chpter 1 describes , then so to are the rest .. this is universal in aplication ... every human being is guily of being a sinner in the sight of God, not just a few
since paul picks our the traits of homosexual union as the example of such sin ... it is very unlikely that we can go against the judgement of God in order make a practice he condemns a loving and Godly one
harry's fifth argument
How america needs to hear the message of hope in christ expressed in 1 corinthians 6, and 1 timothy 1 as mel watt has written paul shouts across the distance you are braking Gods heart by the way your trating one another ... in these texts the greek words that lazy or prejudice translaters have shortened to homosexuals actually mean boy prostitutes and older men who patronise them
now congressman mark folie need to hear a sermon preached on this text unless you only think it only speaks to the gay congressman .. remember the congressman of luisanna who was found out to abusing bodies of women,
I pray you do not forget to preach those sermons and share those incites at your sunday schools at the same time i pray you understand that those text dont say word about my loving relationship with mike .. the word homosexual didnt even exist in the english language untill mid 18 hundreds we have only begun to understand anything about sexual orientation and we must not put words into pauls mouth that he would have not even understood
again we see a mass cover up upon the whole subject of what these passages speak too ... and it truly is not a surprise in any manner ... such people are quick to accuse those who live a truly biblical centred life of misrepresenting the bible -- yet are not willing use to the same standards on there own side
this man earlier on said "they pervert the bible" and now has said "lazy and prejudice" are either of these claims true ... not at all
when we consider the texts at hand .. unlike this man who does not even go into them ... what do we learn
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practise homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God -- (1 Corinthians 6)
verse 9
first note ... this starts with paul making a point of showing the sinful act that the unregenerate person will do .. will not allow one to be given right to enter into heaven .. and these are them
verse 10
here we see a list of things that God will not allow to enter .. as revelation ends with .. that new Jerusalem will be cleaned of these such acts ... paul uses two words here that are very important to focus on "sexually immorality" and "nor men who practise homosexuality" ... the first can imply many unnatural sexual exploitation .. but the second is very direct ... homosexual behaviour
to come away from this text and say that christian can be homosexual is to go against the gospel call to new life .. when they are clearly shown to the past anti Godly act of the unregenerate person .. it is against Gods will
verse 11
these words divided all believers in former category paul has previously mentioning .. these act were who you were before ... but they are thing that you can no longer be
since it twist Paul's whole message ... that our past sinful lives should not be something that we as born of the spirit believers can do -- lets consider this fantastic truth to come "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God"
what this means is this ... the one who lived all the above ways .... are now and were .. " you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
this a lease of new life that makes you a new creature ... one who can no longer practise "neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practise homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers"
there is no such thing a homosexual practising christian .. it is not true Christianity .. it is a perversion of God model as Christ states ...
... "Christ answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh"
3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith. 5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Certain ...persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions. 8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted (1 timothy 1)
verses 3 -4 harry's 4th argument
I turn to pauls letter to the roman christians ... ancient rome was full of temples to fertility gods and godesses, in those temples preists copulated with boy who has no place to go .. in hopes of insuring good havest and growth in a population threatened by deseases and war. the lives of individual children were being sacrificied was precieved to be the common good .. and in the process it became apart of the preists life to partake in orgies that if they were not good for the children, they were pleasurable for the adults
To leave that part out of your study on romans 1 .. is intelectually lazy and spiritually life threatening for your lesbian and gay neighbours
but an explanation of pauls writings in the context offers you to speak words of hope and reconciliation to a nation that is obsessed with sex and talking about sex in every avenue except church
please don't forget to study romans 2 .. where paul begins not to judge our neighbours
What is amazing is that this man can say so much about something which is not even in paul mind when addressing the purpose of the needed saviour -- while it maybe true that rome was " full of temples to fertility gods and godesses, in those temples preists copulated with boy who has no place to go " .. it is one thing to know something pretaining to history of a certian time period, it is quite another thing to assume the bible is address such practices in any detail .. and not addressing sinful nature of man as a whole
What else is blatent in this attempt to make your life style more biblical is that there is no foundation for such claims. we lack any biblical presentation of the passage, there is no exegesis. just plain eisegesis (the art of reading foreign concepts into a passage that has no place for them)
for example "preists copulated with boys who has no place to go" .. and assuming this is being discussed at all
now for an exegesis of the text
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen
God righteous judgement is being revealed against all forms of ungodliness and all so against those who perpetrate them. this is the fist vital point, it is this wickedness and vile live which course men and women to suppress the truth of God. in other word it is men who do this in accord to their evil hearts ...
paul makes this point by clarifying the issue, "since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made" .. it is not the matter of there could be something, it is plainly seen that all thing have order due the fact they were placed in the order we find them .. and done so by a being who has the power to do so
and paul make a point "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" .. here paul further establishes his point, not only is God seen through the creation. a reflection of his power, but that he has personally revealed himself to select people to convey his message and paul then make it clear "that people are without excuse" .. no justification for their disbelief ...
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened .. this is an interesting point .... what does it mean to know God ... well in the same respect they had knowledge which they suppressed due to their sinful natures .. and they were then rejecting God by having their hearts harden
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles .. here is the first point of idolatry ...
these people downplayed the creator - creation relationship ... and turned it on its head .. through their self inflated egos .. they were clearly depicting their foolishness .. and serve that which had no power .. idols
This is the transitional point in the passages and always needs to be seen .. in context .. but never is by the "anti biblical, anti God .. but self centred person" or homosexual
and here i will speak to it Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another
this can not get any clearer .. due to the above idolatry .. and blurring of God revealed truth of who he is -- the creator, and what we are his creation .... God does this " gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity" .. sinful desires ... this fits all categories ... and "sexual impurity" ... this has a wide range of implications .. from bestiality, improper sexual exploits like homosexuality, rape, and many things the next point to reflect is "degrading of their bodies with one another" .. what on Gods green earth can this refer to .. well simple .. the above sexual impurities fits in , and more focus is what is to come in the next argument
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen
the wording is very easy to follow and needs no in depth explanation .. but one thing can be said is that .. if God is the creator and he is and we are his creation, he must have something like a moral and living code for his creature to abide .. not laws but a deeper point of reference .. and it can be found in genesis 2 man and wife
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error
"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practise such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practise them"
Note the wording "Because of this" .. because of what exactly .. well we only need to look to verse 25 .. that man "exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator" ... and from this we see the natural order of things became contaminated through this idolatry .... therefore the result was that the manner of Gods work in man and women union .. the blessed covenant become contaminated too
mans lusts .. became the downfall .. no longer was there unity through Gods covenant blessing .. marriage .. there was disunity and disfunction in that "Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another" .. these things are not Godly they are against him
the interesting thing in this section is "and received in themselves the due penalty for their error" .. a reminder of this sinful rebellious act they were put under a penalty, this penalty is hard to know .. maybe they're passions become their undoing, something happens to them due to this sinful way ?
and in like manner ... God reveals another interesting fact this is the very angle paul gets to .. all the above action man makes leads too these things being seen as that of their lives
pay special attention too ... "And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done" ... this can refer to what come before .. the exchange of creator - creation worship, and natural relations and unnatural relations -- but also we can look ahead in the context ... to the list of vices in men ... and note "haters of God" ... these things are due to being haters and not lovers of God
also interesting is that of the end result of others being equally yoked in these actions ... "Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practise such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practise them" ... this is something which infects many not a few
since romans 2 is not really dealt with by harry knox but is only thrown out as to make his flawed understanding on romans 1 seem to carry wait
lets see what is the situation is in more clear understandering ....
Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things
here we have the first words of chapter 2 .. and what we have .. is after paul reveals God ungodliness of the every other people group, except the jews .. he then turns it on them to reveal their sinful natures .. in these words "everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself" .. if one group are gulty of all chpter 1 describes , then so to are the rest .. this is universal in aplication ... every human being is guily of being a sinner in the sight of God, not just a few
since paul picks our the traits of homosexual union as the example of such sin ... it is very unlikely that we can go against the judgement of God in order make a practice he condemns a loving and Godly one
harry's fifth argument
How america needs to hear the message of hope in christ expressed in 1 corinthians 6, and 1 timothy 1 as mel watt has written paul shouts across the distance you are braking Gods heart by the way your trating one another ... in these texts the greek words that lazy or prejudice translaters have shortened to homosexuals actually mean boy prostitutes and older men who patronise them
now congressman mark folie need to hear a sermon preached on this text unless you only think it only speaks to the gay congressman .. remember the congressman of luisanna who was found out to abusing bodies of women,
I pray you do not forget to preach those sermons and share those incites at your sunday schools at the same time i pray you understand that those text dont say word about my loving relationship with mike .. the word homosexual didnt even exist in the english language untill mid 18 hundreds we have only begun to understand anything about sexual orientation and we must not put words into pauls mouth that he would have not even understood
again we see a mass cover up upon the whole subject of what these passages speak too ... and it truly is not a surprise in any manner ... such people are quick to accuse those who live a truly biblical centred life of misrepresenting the bible -- yet are not willing use to the same standards on there own side
this man earlier on said "they pervert the bible" and now has said "lazy and prejudice" are either of these claims true ... not at all
when we consider the texts at hand .. unlike this man who does not even go into them ... what do we learn
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practise homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God -- (1 Corinthians 6)
verse 9
first note ... this starts with paul making a point of showing the sinful act that the unregenerate person will do .. will not allow one to be given right to enter into heaven .. and these are them
verse 10
here we see a list of things that God will not allow to enter .. as revelation ends with .. that new Jerusalem will be cleaned of these such acts ... paul uses two words here that are very important to focus on "sexually immorality" and "nor men who practise homosexuality" ... the first can imply many unnatural sexual exploitation .. but the second is very direct ... homosexual behaviour
to come away from this text and say that christian can be homosexual is to go against the gospel call to new life .. when they are clearly shown to the past anti Godly act of the unregenerate person .. it is against Gods will
verse 11
these words divided all believers in former category paul has previously mentioning .. these act were who you were before ... but they are thing that you can no longer be
since it twist Paul's whole message ... that our past sinful lives should not be something that we as born of the spirit believers can do -- lets consider this fantastic truth to come "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God"
what this means is this ... the one who lived all the above ways .... are now and were .. " you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
this a lease of new life that makes you a new creature ... one who can no longer practise "neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practise homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers"
there is no such thing a homosexual practising christian .. it is not true Christianity .. it is a perversion of God model as Christ states ...
... "Christ answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh"
3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith. 5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Certain ...persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions. 8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted (1 timothy 1)
In this introduction to the whole passage, we are given some categories in reference to false teachings and we will see why this is an important factor in the whole passage which is focused on false doctrines
The categories ... "myths", "endless genealogies" and also "speculations". no matter how one looks at it paul is saying that in many cases false teachings will fall into many categories and these are just some, or possible these are the major ones
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them (acts 20)
here is paul giving a warning against falsehood coming a prevalent thing in this time and paul .. and paul ministers to his brothers in faith to be on guard ... this seems to fit in with 1 timothy
the words " rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith" here we have something interesting ... paul state true service comes from God and not man ... and this is by faith .. in any sense ... if this act of worship and devotion is by faith and yet comes from God ... then faith is likewise a divine function --- over against the false teaching categories above which purely come from a deceptive heart .. the man...
verses 5-6
here paul makes an important aspect of apologetic undertaking ... it should be done in love and not out of hate and malice .. but above this we need to see that all false teachings as vain discussion .. meaning they are worthless
note in both of these parts .. this has been focusing on "Certain persons" who intentionally ignore or misapplies "pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith... desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions. Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully
verse 7
The first thing to make a comment on is the words. think about what it says "without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions" these people have no real understanding of the law and how it works .. so in their perversed manner they make claim and assertions that can not be contextually supported
one thing that comes to mind is the perversion of the so called "gay christian movement" .. which seeks to gain biblical support for their ungodly behaviour .. where none can be found in a straight forth approach .. therefore they have the desire to twist the manner of Paul's words to allow a born again christian be gay
more on this in a moment ..
verse 8
here in Paul's words spoken through the spirit of God .... "Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully" .. he makes the point the law is GOOD, the law is perfect in its application .. for what God intended it for -- the problem is that man is not perfect and in this man cannot idealistically fulfil the demands of the law ... but God alone can .. hence it points to Jesus the one and only son of God .. the unique one of God
the old testament is full of many occasions where men fail to live up to the law .. in the case of David and Bathsheba , Solomon and his idolatry .. many others .. the Israelites going off after some false god .. numbers 25 and 31
verses 9- 10
paul here start with a imperative and a truth " that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient" .. the law was given to show the ungodly there sin ... if man is just they did not need the law .. but man is not just in of himself .. all men are sinners
the law was given to curb us of our sinful natures .. it revealed this ... all these things listed in the list ... "for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practise homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers" .... these are seen as being unsound things to teach on as being good things ---
sound doctrine is in accord to the the gospel .. but to profane the use of the law and what it prohibits for us to do is to show great dishonour to God and how he created us to be
now lets deal wit a few point raised in this comment
1 ---
now congressman mark folie need to hear a sermon preached on this text unless you only think it only speaks to the gay congressman .. remember the congressman of luisanna who was found out to abusing bodies of women,
here is the first thing to point out .. which is that this issue has no baring on the issue of whether the bible teaches whether being gay is acceptable or now ... it is what is classed as a red herring
thought the matter of abusing women is a crime again humanity, it is of little relivence to the situation at hand ...
like this subterfuge .. the answer as whole to these texts has no real biblical imput .. it is mostly eisegetical in nature and fails to do what it is meant to do -- which is show that the bible teaches that homosexuality is acceptable
2 ---
in these texts the greek words that lazy or prejudice translaters have shortened to homosexuals actually mean boy prostitutes and older men who patronise them
here we see that the person who states this as a fact must ... 1) provide evidence this is the case, 2) give an accurate translation of the words "arsenokoites" as to mean something that is not historically seen from other means
on top of this is the claim "the word homosexual didnt even exist in the english language untill mid 18 hundreds we have only begun to understand anything about sexual orientation and we must not put words into pauls mouth that he would have not even understood" ... while it maybe true the english term is only a recent term for it .. this however plays little effect on the term that is often seen as a sinful action beterrn 2 men
also what need to be seen is that even homosexual "christians" contradict them selves on what paul would have been familiar with .. here this man says paul would not have familiar such act .. whilest other have positively said that paul did know of it as he condemns such behaviour
3 ---
i pray you understand that those text don't say word about my loving relationship with mike
here is oft repeated assertion that these texts like the others have nothing negitive to say about his union with his male partner, when in fact the terminology that is often utiled to discribe it "loving relationship" ... whom is it love too, what defines it as being loving, what standard to you appeal too
if the bible , then my friend i am afraid you are redefining loving to include your false idealism, as the bible speak negitively about ur sinful living. homosexuality is a sin no matter what terms are imployed to discribe in the english language
here are a few ---
homosexuals .. in nasb, esv,
men who have sex with men .. n . i . v
nor abusers of themselves with mankind ... king james
nor those who participate in homosexuality -- amplified bible
or anyone practicing homosexuality -- christian holman standard bible
so to say that the term "arsenokoites" .. tanslates to prostitue boys and the men who mess with them .. and conclude sch things is to miss the point that this sin would and could have fallen un a different term in the old testament and catagory too .. one that related to the preist rules .. but since we know all the mangling that this man had to do to keep face .. and not allow his sin be identified as such means he is not walking in accord to Christs ways
