examining joel osteen style of preaching
in this series of exaninations on joel osteens preaching style to find out if it is a style which people, more specifically christians should be influenced by, since what it is very deceptive .. even if does not set out to decieve anyone that is beside the piont, as millions of his fans are being led into a deception which is being passed of as a form christianity -- there is only one true christianity and that is what is in the pages of the new testament and what is adapted from the old testament
unfortuneately many have being fooled by this self obsessed pitch line of his.. i say this because every someone he somehoe to takes the focus that should be on christ and places it on him, making himself the role model for a perfect christian life ... this is the worst kind of self help style -- its being selfish and self obseesed -- think of what one of his top selling books are called "how to become a better you"
what makes this worse is that in a recent sermon he had oprah winfrey on and dedicated a lot of time to her .. he said" oprah we love you and pray for you" not that this is a bad thing .. but when you consider what she believes in " the christ consciousness myth" one only wonder what he is praying for on her behalf .... its not her delieverence since he is a self help preacher od the craze " name and claim it fame" or believe and recieve it / become it --- now lets move onto a sermone he gave -- (how i hate the idea of calling it a sermon) called "living with expectancy"
he states : our expectations set the limits for our lives : too many people are not expecting the right things -- they dont expect to rise any higher -- they dont expect too get any good breaks -- they go through the day expecting to get the short end of the stick -- they dont realise their own wrong thinking is keeping in mediocrity
God meets us at the level of our expectency .. if we expect little -- we're gonna recieve little, if we dont expect anything to get any better ... it probably won't get better
you expectations is your faith at work --- when you expect all things to go in your favour -- your faith is being released -- and that allows God to bring it too pass
he states : our expectations set the limits for our lives : too many people are not expecting the right things -- they dont expect to rise any higher -- they dont expect too get any good breaks -- they go through the day expecting to get the short end of the stick -- they dont realise their own wrong thinking is keeping in mediocrity
God meets us at the level of our expectency .. if we expect little -- we're gonna recieve little, if we dont expect anything to get any better ... it probably won't get better
you expectations is your faith at work --- when you expect all things to go in your favour -- your faith is being released -- and that allows God to bring it too pass
ANSWER
so far in this short portion we have seen that joel is given a self help .. or self proclaim fest and then giving God a little attention in ways of saying God is the one who leads you to this place
but there are some problems with this ideal
first of all ---- God is not your financial creditor that you go to when you need fix up, he is your creator who owes you nothing.. but gave us the one thing we can never dishonour or honour with our self made fortune ... his loyalty in the offering of his son
secondly, God is not the reason for our happiness or discomfort .. that is our own doing .. we can just have the frame of mind where we say i expected this or that to happen because i believe in God
so if we have expectations in life ... or if we dont .. this is a human component, and has nothing to do with God ... what God does is in his own purpose and because of what we seek
so the point is if we aim high or low in life it not because we have God in opur lif=ves that we do good or bad ... its because we never had God interests at heat but our own
thirdly ---- i wonder how this line of think would have work for the 300 years of martyrs in the faith .... their faith was in christ and what he had done through them and not in any selfish desire to be rich and successful
but wait it gets worse
by saying this : "God meets us at the level of our expectency" he has shown that what he believes to be God is not what the bible declares about God ... his God is some influencial power which guide you to become a better you .. so infact ... satan himself could be the good he speaks of remember what satan said to eve in the garden
But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil -- Genesis 3 :4 -5
here satan and joel seem to have a common goal to decive the masses with something which come from the pits of hell --- so joel through his teachings is telling people to not be under God rule but your own rule ... through becoming better ...
so we finally come to the last point ... he see faith being what you expect ...... this is not faith ... this plain and simple fact ... that what joel is pushing is name and claim it .. a satanic ideal
so far in this short portion we have seen that joel is given a self help .. or self proclaim fest and then giving God a little attention in ways of saying God is the one who leads you to this place
but there are some problems with this ideal
first of all ---- God is not your financial creditor that you go to when you need fix up, he is your creator who owes you nothing.. but gave us the one thing we can never dishonour or honour with our self made fortune ... his loyalty in the offering of his son
secondly, God is not the reason for our happiness or discomfort .. that is our own doing .. we can just have the frame of mind where we say i expected this or that to happen because i believe in God
so if we have expectations in life ... or if we dont .. this is a human component, and has nothing to do with God ... what God does is in his own purpose and because of what we seek
so the point is if we aim high or low in life it not because we have God in opur lif=ves that we do good or bad ... its because we never had God interests at heat but our own
thirdly ---- i wonder how this line of think would have work for the 300 years of martyrs in the faith .... their faith was in christ and what he had done through them and not in any selfish desire to be rich and successful
but wait it gets worse
by saying this : "God meets us at the level of our expectency" he has shown that what he believes to be God is not what the bible declares about God ... his God is some influencial power which guide you to become a better you .. so infact ... satan himself could be the good he speaks of remember what satan said to eve in the garden
But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil -- Genesis 3 :4 -5
here satan and joel seem to have a common goal to decive the masses with something which come from the pits of hell --- so joel through his teachings is telling people to not be under God rule but your own rule ... through becoming better ...
so we finally come to the last point ... he see faith being what you expect ...... this is not faith ... this plain and simple fact ... that what joel is pushing is name and claim it .. a satanic ideal
now we move onto the next part which as i plan will bring out a key ingredient that is never handle correctly, or even at worse never even spoken of ..... and that is the gospel of jesus christ, as apostles paul say we are to put on the full armour of God ... meaning every spiritual and biblical truth ... how do we know what it is when the church never teaches it
and this is the main problem i have as christian who want everyone to know Gods son ... i am too preach his word to build them up... but this self made pastor never teaches it passage for passage understanding ... how are we any different f...rom the unsaved if we dont hear our shepherd voice in his word -- christ own words --- my sheep hear my voice and i know them ..
so as christians one of our many duty is to hold eachother accounable, and to reason from the scriptures on what a believer needs to hear ... this is not judge but merely correcting, and rebuking someone who is meant to lead the flock ... we all have this duty regardless of our own feelings
Joels opening statement : this is my bible ... i am what it says i am, i have what it says i have, i can do what it says i can do
today i will be taught the word of God
i boldly confess, my mind is alert -- my heart is receptive -- i will never be the same, i am about to recieve that incorruptible, indestructable, ever living seed of God
a portion of a talk : our expectations set the limits for our lives : too many people are not expecting the right things -- they dont expect to rise any higher -- they dont expect too get any good breaks -- they go through the day expecting to get the short end of the stick -- they dont realise their own wrong thinking is keeping in mediocrity
God meets us at the level of our expectency .. if we expect little -- we're gonna recieve little, if we dont expect anything to get any better ... it probably won't get better.. you expectations is your faith at work --- when you expect all things to go in your favour -- your faith is being released -- and that allows God to bring it too pass
so as christians one of our many duty is to hold eachother accounable, and to reason from the scriptures on what a believer needs to hear ... this is not judge but merely correcting, and rebuking someone who is meant to lead the flock ... we all have this duty regardless of our own feelings
Joels opening statement : this is my bible ... i am what it says i am, i have what it says i have, i can do what it says i can do
today i will be taught the word of God
i boldly confess, my mind is alert -- my heart is receptive -- i will never be the same, i am about to recieve that incorruptible, indestructable, ever living seed of God
a portion of a talk : our expectations set the limits for our lives : too many people are not expecting the right things -- they dont expect to rise any higher -- they dont expect too get any good breaks -- they go through the day expecting to get the short end of the stick -- they dont realise their own wrong thinking is keeping in mediocrity
God meets us at the level of our expectency .. if we expect little -- we're gonna recieve little, if we dont expect anything to get any better ... it probably won't get better.. you expectations is your faith at work --- when you expect all things to go in your favour -- your faith is being released -- and that allows God to bring it too pass
ANSWER
here im not gonna go into the 2nd portion too much .. i am just using it to highlight a few things which are important for us to understand in a role of a pastor
1 ---- that the 2nd statement contradict the first one .. where it cl...aims that we will hear the word of God .... unless stories about ones own life and selfish ambitions are in Gods will ... and i missed that scripture
what does paul say in timothy say about pastors rolls :
Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.-- 1 timothy 6 :2 -10
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry -- 2 timothy 4 :1-5
as these scriptures are in the pastorial sections of scripture .. they give so much emphesis on what the believers need to hear to equip in every circumstance
2 --- if he says he is going to teach the bible .. how comes we never get any real understanding of sin and repentance .. or how we are forgiven in christ .. all the essential points are conveniently replace with a selfish appeal to what we have to do
he says in an interveiw that he feel his role is to motivate people and not speak of judgement or the condition of sin on men, infact he does not even speak to much on jesus .. he goes to old testament laws more and says we can be good and do this to earn Gods favour
and he believes man is born good and continues to be
well now this is not what the bible teaches for those in christ
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
"Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." -- romans 3 :9 -12
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus --- romans 3 :21- 26
the above verse show that no one is good and its by faith in christ we are reckoned as rightesousness before God --- now lets just make it clear --- i am not judging anyone in this .. i am merely critiquing a sermon and holding it accountable to the scriptures as we all should ..
here im not gonna go into the 2nd portion too much .. i am just using it to highlight a few things which are important for us to understand in a role of a pastor
1 ---- that the 2nd statement contradict the first one .. where it cl...aims that we will hear the word of God .... unless stories about ones own life and selfish ambitions are in Gods will ... and i missed that scripture
what does paul say in timothy say about pastors rolls :
Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.-- 1 timothy 6 :2 -10
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry -- 2 timothy 4 :1-5
as these scriptures are in the pastorial sections of scripture .. they give so much emphesis on what the believers need to hear to equip in every circumstance
2 --- if he says he is going to teach the bible .. how comes we never get any real understanding of sin and repentance .. or how we are forgiven in christ .. all the essential points are conveniently replace with a selfish appeal to what we have to do
he says in an interveiw that he feel his role is to motivate people and not speak of judgement or the condition of sin on men, infact he does not even speak to much on jesus .. he goes to old testament laws more and says we can be good and do this to earn Gods favour
and he believes man is born good and continues to be
well now this is not what the bible teaches for those in christ
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
"Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." -- romans 3 :9 -12
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus --- romans 3 :21- 26
the above verse show that no one is good and its by faith in christ we are reckoned as rightesousness before God --- now lets just make it clear --- i am not judging anyone in this .. i am merely critiquing a sermon and holding it accountable to the scriptures as we all should ..
in an interveiw Joel had with larry king in 2005 joel made some very telling statement which can be very damning for a minister of the covenant .. a preacher of the gospel ... he was asked about his book "your best life now" and his lack of biblical teaching in his church -- but im not going to get into these areas as they do not pretain to what i want to discuss
as a minister of the covenant .. it is my duty not to only correct and rebuke false teachings presented as biblical truth from out side the faith like in islam, but also to correct those who are claiming to be christians .. like mormon, jehovah witness and false teachers like joel osteen -- so infact i am upholding the biblical teaching in doing this matthew 7 :15 -23 tell me to judge everything according to it fruit .. this can mean the works they do, or what they teach
as a minister of the covenant .. it is my duty not to only correct and rebuke false teachings presented as biblical truth from out side the faith like in islam, but also to correct those who are claiming to be christians .. like mormon, jehovah witness and false teachers like joel osteen -- so infact i am upholding the biblical teaching in doing this matthew 7 :15 -23 tell me to judge everything according to it fruit .. this can mean the works they do, or what they teach
as ministers of the covenant .. we have a duty to put on the full armour of God and teach everything that is biblically true -- yet there are many things which joels does not teach, or even things he teaches which are biblically false -- b...ut through the deceptive teaching people are being led into a spiritual darkness ... called the word of faith ... you can speak into existence by your thoughts -- which is not christianity
so now to the section of larry king i want to comment on
the answer to the question of telling people they are sinners
I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.
his reason for not speaking particular biblical truths such as mans sinfulness ... is that most people know when they doing wrong -- well this isn ot exactally the point .. sin is not just doing wrong but it is being spiritually seperated from God .. when you in rebellion to the almighty -- where as doing wrong can be anything from hurting someone to a little mistake of not getting the right things in shopping .. this does not dishonour God as rebelling does
a pastor should not cater to what the pews wants but rather only cater to what the bible teaches ... even if it offends .. otherwise we are not going to be saved from our sin --- almost all christians i know are mortified as to the kind of life they had before ... and it only the gospel being accurately proclaimed that makes us this way .. hating sin
and when you claim you can change -- there are ways of making a difference ... no if we dont have christ as our lord and saviour and sovereign king over all things ... im afraid we cant change the very thing that keeps you captive .. we are still are a prideful sinful individuals . who need jesus for any kind of hope
the answer to whether a jew or a muslim will go to heacen for not believing in Jesus as their lord and saviour
Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus
if you as a christian pastor and teacher can not do the work of a pastor do not claim it as your title .. infact your nothing more than a motivation speaker who appeal to scripture and God to fool his audience into believing they can be better people .. without even teaching how this possibly can be attained
to say this is what the bible teaches take a life time of knowing the bible really teaches .. in the sense that it can take a good few years for us to actually understand the bible thoroughly
its interesting that he would say hindus are dedicated to God ... simply because this is where most of his ideal origanate from .. the mythical religions of hinduism .. but they dont believe in the same God yahweh .. they believe in created God that exists in all things
relationship with jesus is all good and well ... but how does someone in your congregation go about the same things as you .. knowing you do not teach the bible .. we are also cslaves of christ too
so now to the section of larry king i want to comment on
the answer to the question of telling people they are sinners
I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.
his reason for not speaking particular biblical truths such as mans sinfulness ... is that most people know when they doing wrong -- well this isn ot exactally the point .. sin is not just doing wrong but it is being spiritually seperated from God .. when you in rebellion to the almighty -- where as doing wrong can be anything from hurting someone to a little mistake of not getting the right things in shopping .. this does not dishonour God as rebelling does
a pastor should not cater to what the pews wants but rather only cater to what the bible teaches ... even if it offends .. otherwise we are not going to be saved from our sin --- almost all christians i know are mortified as to the kind of life they had before ... and it only the gospel being accurately proclaimed that makes us this way .. hating sin
and when you claim you can change -- there are ways of making a difference ... no if we dont have christ as our lord and saviour and sovereign king over all things ... im afraid we cant change the very thing that keeps you captive .. we are still are a prideful sinful individuals . who need jesus for any kind of hope
the answer to whether a jew or a muslim will go to heacen for not believing in Jesus as their lord and saviour
Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus
if you as a christian pastor and teacher can not do the work of a pastor do not claim it as your title .. infact your nothing more than a motivation speaker who appeal to scripture and God to fool his audience into believing they can be better people .. without even teaching how this possibly can be attained
to say this is what the bible teaches take a life time of knowing the bible really teaches .. in the sense that it can take a good few years for us to actually understand the bible thoroughly
its interesting that he would say hindus are dedicated to God ... simply because this is where most of his ideal origanate from .. the mythical religions of hinduism .. but they dont believe in the same God yahweh .. they believe in created God that exists in all things
relationship with jesus is all good and well ... but how does someone in your congregation go about the same things as you .. knowing you do not teach the bible .. we are also cslaves of christ too
the answer to whether living the christian life is hard
I don't think it's that hard. To me it's fun. We have joy and happiness. Our family -- I don't feel like that at all. I'm not trying to follow a set of rules and stuff. I'm just livin...g my life --- We do have rules. But the main rule to me is to honor God with your life. To life a life of integrity. Not be selfish. You know, help others. But that's really the essence of the Christian faith
I don't think it's that hard. To me it's fun. We have joy and happiness. Our family -- I don't feel like that at all. I'm not trying to follow a set of rules and stuff. I'm just livin...g my life --- We do have rules. But the main rule to me is to honor God with your life. To life a life of integrity. Not be selfish. You know, help others. But that's really the essence of the Christian faith
so in an effort to explain himself ... by saying the christian life is not hard .. he has baed false testamony and called jesus a liar .. and contradicted himself in another way
the christian life is about a struggle with the human sinfulness we carry .. we are constantly at war with ourselves as well as the world ... the new creature is who we aspire to be .. but the world keep tripping us up over the old ways
even jesus words are telling this --- matthew 5 :11-12 -- Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you
he then goes and says I'm not trying to follow a set of rules and stuff. I'm just living my life --- We do have rules
which is it .. your not trying to live to rule or your living according to ur own rules and the main rule to honour God with life .. how , in what way does one do this without jesus ...
infact you can give time , mony and all kinds things to help other and still be selfish ... cause you expect glory in return for favour -- and this is the human sinful nature .. only thinking of oneself ... but when you fully give your life to jesus .. u understand true give as a sacrifice
the answer to whether joels teaching is cotton theology or spiritually numb
I think, I hear it meaning a lot of different things. One I think a lot of it is that I'm not condemning people. And I don't know, but Larry I talk, I mean every week in our church we're dealing with people that are fighting cancer, that have their lost loved ones. That are going through a divorce. I mean, I talk about those issues, and to me I don't see how it can get any more, you know, real than that. So I don't know what the criticism is.
well for one ... you have hit the mark .. in essence cotton theology is not speaking to sinful acts of man .. not condemning .. unless its the works and teaching of men
but in the fuller sence it is discribing the fact that you make works the essence of your preaching .. and say God is pleased and will bless you .. and give you all you desire
this is a works based theology
the only time you invoke God is to make you sound good infront of the congregation.. instead of teaching 100 % biblical truth
it all well and help people to deal with illness .. and that is a great part of our faith , but neglection the biblical message is very damaging to the soul of the person you are trying to
